Ashish Rajan: [00:00:00] Welcome to Coffee with a Ashish! It an interesting episode. Culture it’s one of those soft skills that people always talk about whether it’s the culture of the organization that I want to join, that makes a difference for me. It’s not how much they pay me. It’s not about how much. I guess. Money I make or how amazing a company is.

It could be. Facebook, Google, whatever. All companies you’ve done nowadays struggled with culture, and I found someone who can probably shed some light, especially if you’re a growth organization. Now, thanks to COVID, a lot of us have been forced to go online and work remotely. I found someone who literally wrote an article on how to work on culture remotely.

So thankfully we have someone and I’m going to bring him over and

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:00:50] Hey, Graeme. Hey, how are you?

Ashish Rajan: [00:00:55] Good. Thanks for coming on night, man.

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:00:58] Yeah, no problem. Happy to be here.

[00:01:00] Ashish Rajan: [00:01:00] Thank you. So for people joining in now, Graeme literally wrote an article on how to build culture for remote employees as well, and I think it’s worth calling out that it has been.

It’s sort of a new problem. It has been there. In a lot of spaces before corporate happened as well. But I think it’s kind of highlighted that awesome of the fields in it, especially like cyber security. No one ever taught about this until like, now suddenly everyone’s, Oh, are working remotely. I don’t even know what’s being pushed in the pipeline or things like that.

But I’m glad I have Graeme here. And, as always, I’m not going to try and butcher his introduction. So, Graeme, for people who don’t know you, how would you describe Graeme.

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:01:42] Oh, okay. Well, I think that that’s probably how it, that’s how I’d probably describe myself home. So I spent 10 years in the military, and I’ve still struggled to shake that.

Probably the culture that I’d turned become so embedded in me that. but yeah, I love doing those [00:02:00] things. I love everything that you’d expect of a, an ex military man. even having spent five years now in the private sector, still struggle to shake that tail. And I think that really answers starts to answer some of what we’re going to talk about today.

Right.

Ashish Rajan: [00:02:14] Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent, I think. And thank you to thank you for your service, by the way, really appreciate when I get ex-military people as well. and funny enough, a lot of ex military people do enter cyber security. I don’t know why, but maybe it’s a culture thing and it’s all about I want to keep this safe.

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:02:32] Yeah. I think there’s, there’s definitely an element of that, and I think at the same time, you see one person going in and be successful in that environment, and then there’s quite a train that that creates.

Ashish Rajan: [00:02:42] Yup. By the way, before we start really questioning, just doing a quick beverage check, I’ve got my beverage.

awesome. Tears, love New York,

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:02:52] Disney as well, which is another, you know

Ashish Rajan: [00:02:55] the Mickey mouse? Oh yes.

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:02:59] Back when [00:03:00] I was at university. So actually in customer service, I’m really doing things right by, by the customer or the guests. There’s Disney was, have you called them?

Ashish Rajan: [00:03:09] Oh, there you go. Well, I think that’s a good way to start then.

how’d you get into cyber security, like military and then what brought you into cyber security?

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:03:17] Yeah, I think, there’s, there’s a couple of parts that people have of my, my age and really I was that kind of 13, 14 year old kid who spent far too long on his computer and, I’m just wanting to get up to a bit of mess and probably no good.

so yeah, I was kind of interested from a young age about how things work and how things could be broken and, and, um. How controls could be stepped. So that’s the side of each of them. but I actually didn’t, you know, didn’t kind of fall off the rails so I can go down that route. So thankfully it had the military to, to fall back on and put me on the straight and narrow quite quickly.

I then had a military career as a Royal signals officer. So working with [00:04:00] networks and working with secure networks, but not really from a cyber security point of view. More for an, from a network planning diploma and capacity point of view. and then during my latter, the latter time in my career, I really started to see a few doors open for cyber security.

It started to become, a key growth area in the military. I’m then, I tried to position myself for those roles. So working quite a lot of sub roles. So at the end of my career, before deciding that the private sector was the place I needed to go with, I wanted to work in cyber and cloud home and really have something a little bit more interesting for the future.

Ashish Rajan: [00:04:37] Yeah, and I think too, to your point, it definitely brings in a unique perspective as well. I find it amazing that really, I mean, I guess cyber security professionals that I’ve spoken to, everyone has been like super smart, really interesting background and, but not many start off with cyber security.

Somehow they all end up in cybersecurity, but they all don’t. And I think it’s amazing because everyone who’s not from a [00:05:00] cybersecurity perspective, they bring in their own. I guess experience and another world experience into the cyber security field, which is amazing. So I do appreciate that. The first question that I have for you is, what does culture mean for you and where does that intersect with cyber security?

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:05:18] So I think there’s a definition of culture that. That most people would fall back to. A man is coined by herb Keller from Southwest, which is our culture is what people do when no one is looking. and apologies if I butchered that phrase. but essentially that’s what it is. It’s the underlying values of an organization and the people within that organization.

And that’s the phrase of what they’ll do when no one is looking. It’s because it’s so ingrained in them that it doesn’t matter if anyone’s looking at anyone’s checking, that’s, that’s what they deal. But. People often confuse culture with things like your organizational values, which can be a part of your culture and, but they’re not your culture at large.

I think [00:06:00] one, one big thing that I’m seeing a lot of at the moment is people think they can manufacture a culture, which true, you have to grow it and certain growth organizations, but they think you can manufacture it by the addition of a ping pong table and slide two enough this, it’s much more fundamental than that.

The second part, I guess, of the question was the intersection of security. Agriculture. And I look at this in a couple of ways. Security can really either undermine or underline your culture, and depending on how that culture is and how security intersect is overlayed on top of that can really depend on which one of these it’s doing.

So where or where you could look at that is, you look at policing, ultimately policing as a security function. Um. And if you see police out on the streets, that can make you feel really safe and at ease in certain scenarios. In other scenarios, it can create a bit of punny, heightened suspicion, you know, heightened awareness and Infosec’s really similar.

So you’ve got to be able to make sure that you’re on the right side of that. You want [00:07:00] people in the right thing when no one’s watching. but what you don’t want to do is imply a lack of trust in your workforce and create a sense of a fear. Oh,

Ashish Rajan: [00:07:09] that’s an interesting one. And I think too, I love the policing comparison because when you do see a cop on the road, you don’t usually notice.

You’re not scared unless you’ve committed a murder or something. Then you look at the, you’re basically looking at the police officer. Oh, does he know, or does he or she know that I’ve done this? And I think that’s kind of where the fear, or. The negative vibe about cyber security comes in from as well, where all is, it’s all about policing.

It’s all about the book. But there’s, I think there’s a reason why I say, I don’t wanna use a gourd example, but I think even during a curfew or a protest or something, the reason why they’re there to contain the damage, it’s not to like, yeah, it’s not to be basically amplified. It’s basically to control it to a point that doesn’t care.

Housekeepers for everyone else who’s already involved in it. Yeah. So I just face some lane in here in this [00:08:00] case as well. And I love the example that you gave about culture is not about ping pong tables. Cause I’ve had organizations in the past where we had had ping pong tables and there have been cultures, I don’t know if you drink kombucha, but there’s been pooch on tap.

And I’m like, what is this thing? And it’s just bizarre how that doesn’t make a difference.

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:08:19] No, no, it can. It can probably be a small indicator of the, maybe the way that organization thinks, because there will be some organizations where you absolutely would not have important variable and the culture is bad there, but it probably starts to say something about their culture to an extent.

Ashish Rajan: [00:08:38] Yeah. And taking this another notch up with remote employees now everyone fucking anymore. Right. I think like there’s no point of having a ping pong table because you’re not there to drink kombucha anymore. So in case of a remote employee, how does this change

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:08:55] this, this re really interesting and really interesting question [00:09:00] actually.

How. I think looking at how it changes with rota employees is one thing. And has it changed you to covert? I know that, to covert probably been the biggest driver for technological change that we’ve had since, since maybe the Internet’s, I don’t know how

it’s really pushed the timeline, the timeline on making sure that people can operate remotely, but what hasn’t done is. Overnight changed culture. It’s not a ping pong table. It’s horizontal, isn’t it? Maybe it is a ping pong table. It’s not changed culture in that sense. The culture is underlying within the organization and the culture maybe needs to adapt to this, but it hasn’t been a driver for change of this.

what I, what we find really important within material where I work at the moment is that, um. We, we use the principles of a guy called Patrick Lencioni [00:10:00] who talks about the five dysfunctions of team with essentially establishing, for us, this is the bottom of this, but when he talks about is what makes a culture in his latest book, it’s called the advantage really worth read.

He talks about how you can actually generate a couple chair and how you can generate that through ensuring that all senior leaders and therefore the messaging throughout your organization is aligned. They those areas that you need to align on things such as working as a team, how you align, how you communicate, and then start looking at the principles and the fundamentals of your business of why do you exist, how do you behave as a business?

What do you do? How are you going to succeed? And I’m thinking the most important one is what’s most important right now. And who must do what I could. That those things don’t change whether you’re in a to covert, well, the pre covert well remotely or all sat in a very small office. All of those remain the same.

But having that transparency is what’s important. [00:11:00] So how you, if you get that right, you can push that across any kind of business. Remember how you are configured. For us, we’ve managed to, I think we’ve got that really spot on. And so then when we’ve moved to a much more remote culture, so much more remote workforce than we had, and we’ve been able to extrapolate that across with relative ease because everyone is aligned, everyone knows what direction they’re pulling get, and everyone knows what is most important.

Ashish Rajan: [00:11:31] That’s really interesting. And I think the real challenge, and you’re right, if you already built something that kind of carries over room into a remote world as well, where as we move forward and a lot of countries and States are basically saying, well, we need to figure out how to live with Cobra, which potentially means we are hiring people remotely as well.

Which brings, then another challenge. And it’s funny because, the. It’s a job that I’m at right now as well. I was hired [00:12:00] remotely. I was like, I want, the first time I mentioned to the office was like a month after being hired. It was funny. It was a weird experience to begin with, cause I think I never expected myself to join a company.

Not even, even though I’m in the same city as the office, not going to the office for like over a month or something. but so do you reckon it changes or how do you, what kind of practices can you build. To onboard people with that same culture. Highlight that culture when you’re trying to onboard people as well.

Is that some thoughts around that as well for you?

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:12:33] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we’ve not stopped hiring since, since coven, which still had a couple of hires. we obviously have that, that issue. we’ve got a lot of tools to be able to help us with this. So yes, we’ve got that culture set. And how do we maintain that?

And that was actually what the main points of this, the article that you referenced, which is on my LinkedIn minutes, um. We use a number of different tools. So we’ve signed up to [00:13:00] something called donuts, which is an app that sits on top of Slack that that looks at the interactions between you and other people within your organization.

It ranks them and then it pairs you up every week and says. Go and grab a donut or a virtual coffee in our case with someone once a week, 15 minutes, and maybe don’t talk so much about work or something directly product project related each other. And because it’s pairing you up in that sense, you’re getting to know people across the organization who you don’t have proper relationships with that that’s great.

A fundamental level. next one up. How, how do we keep that alignment? regularly we have. Two weekly town halls where our CEO and exec team set down on an on zoom slide. we use Slido to bring questions in from everyone across the organization, both anonymously, a named vote them. And then we have real candid sessions where we can ask her.

Anything that’s going on [00:14:00] with the organization and we will, we will drive up. So it’s not like, on top of that, we have another thing that we’ve, we’ve slightly changed in a postcode world where we have a, what’s on my mind session. So this is a 30 minute session on zoom once a week from anyone within the exec team now who just talks about what’s, what’s keeping their mind occupied that week.

What it really does is keep start home. That constant alignment back to our, our core plan of what’s going on in the business and how we’re navigating such, such choppy waters. Hmm.

Ashish Rajan: [00:14:36] That’s really interesting. Cause we, yeah, I think donut. A virtual coffee I’ve seen, there’s something else that people can be doing morning tea as well, like a virtual more, you know, the events that used to happen, like you’re already trying to raise funds.

It’s like a virtual morning tea. And I thought, Oh, that’s really interesting concept that you’re able to bring that in or whore those events still like, but it’s kind of like what you and [00:15:00] I are doing. We have our own beverage at our end, but they’re participating in an event, which other people can get to see as well.

And if they want to contribute, they can contribute. Yeah. It’s nothing. It’s like billing that little or continue to do those little things. Is that what sets the foundation for a good culture?

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:15:18] No. I think going back to the kind of Lencioni principles of what makes a corporate culture and how you, how you kind of transcend that across an organization is, is what makes it, and so it’s ensuring alignment and communication and transparency from.

The top down. Understanding where every part of the business plays in achieving your key, most important goal at that point in time. I think that’s what makes the culture, because you’ve got that consistent alignment across the board. It means then that you can create things like this to really help, help drive some of these [00:16:00] areas.

So a lot of the things that you discussed, the, actually we’ve, we’ve benefited from the technological change that’s been driven by COBIT. I say we, the world has been benefited by this because we’ve had a lot of things that would have been great to do face to face that we can’t do. But we’ve now got a load of things that we can do and they’re becoming more popular that can be done over the internet.

So yeah, like this, we host them, yoga sessions, fitness sessions, fitness competitions, so all this fun stuff that really just helps people enjoy their working day as well a bit more. We’ve made some really nice changes as well, like moved, moved meeting times to 25 minutes instead of 30 just to give people a break from the constant.

The zoom, either they’ll get a been on zoom all day

Ashish Rajan: [00:16:48] or,

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:16:49] or play playing, you know, interactive games to get to know each other a little bit more like, through, through the keyholes of British MTV. Show that, and we’ll play that on, on [00:17:00] zoom, where we all will give some photos into one person central in the organization.

And then we try and guess who’s hosted is where we’re looking at on the screen. Oh, wow. Oh, this is great, great fun, and I’m making a place, an enjoyable place to work. But setting the culture for me really comes from the transparency and communication and alignment and efforts against the clearly flagged strategic goal.

Ashish Rajan: [00:17:23] Yeah. And I think transparency a hundred percent. Where do you feel like it, these are qualities you’re able to see before you even joined the company.

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:17:31] I’d show up. Yeah, absolutely. There’s a number of chances you you get as a, as an interviewee, I guess, to, to go and understand this and yeah. More so the more, crowdsourced intelligence we have on this kind of stuff.

so Glassdoor for, for me, is the first place that I’ve ever look when, when joining an organization. And, I think it was certainly one of the places that I looked when I joined my current organization. and you really get a sense for, for a company by looking at it because you can see [00:18:00] it, people have written a truly heartfelt review or not.

wow. And often, you know, you get the TripAdvisor effect where certain people only write a negative review and you know, it’s hard to, to leave a positive one. Well, that’s when you do get positive ones. They’re obviously worth even more weight. And, I joined the material, we had outstanding five star reviews across every area, which we said a lot to to me.

And, but then you can go further. You know, during the interview process, you get a real feel for it. And the way I’m Italian interviews, it’s, it’s never a really kind of half an hour or an hour boxed interview with competency based questions. We really open, open everything up so that the interviewee really gets to question us.

Senior organization I interviewed with, with some of the newest hires within the organization were on the interview panel for me as well as some of the, you know, developers, which who I went was not really going to have a lot of interaction with. [00:19:00] Um. But needed to understand where they were coming from and where the business found it and that really kind of, candy conversation.

Yeah, that’s great.

Ashish Rajan: [00:19:12] Yeah. And to your point comes back to the transparency as well, because you’re able to be transparent with other people and doing for anyone who’s listening in and is going through an interview process and kind of wondering, I wonder what the culture is like. And if you aren’t able to, if you’re not able to have a transparent conversation with.

Your interviewee or interviewer, I guess in that, in this context as well, cause it should, it’s a two way conversation. It’s not just them telling you how or why you should join, but it’s also you deciding, should I join this company?

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:19:42] Absolutely. Absolutely. It’s one of the things we’ve worried about from.

When you always bring people into the office and let them kind of sit around the office and meet whoever they might meet whilst they’re waiting to go in for an interview. And obviously them can’t do that right now. Certain [00:20:00] ways at which we can try and show people at least what medallion is in the physical form as well, and

Ashish Rajan: [00:20:07] areas

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:20:08] we’ve looked at trying to achieve that as well.

over there, over the next few, few months.

Ashish Rajan: [00:20:15] And I think we mentioned, we spoke about cybersecurity culture before court culture and gentlemen and organization and how to kind of amplifier during a remote environment. How does this change for a growth organization was as a bigger organization? I understand you have had a lot of experience in the growth organization as well for people who may not know what a growth organization has.

If you can start with that and then go into, if it changes for growth.

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:20:40] So I think, the big difference that you, you get here is that when an organization is going through that growth phase, they need to focus on a couple of areas. And it’s really important for someone, especially if they’ve got a product that they’re selling, they then need to look at making sure that their [00:21:00] product fits the market.

And making sure that their, their sales pipeline is ready to go. So then it could go to market and good, good product. Next, we’ve got those two things they’re going to do well and do well on that growth curve and continue to expand that, a real paste. And so what that leaves you with is a couple of interesting dynamics that you need to consider when you’re looking at a culture.

firstly you’ve got rapid growth, so rapid growth of the size of your organization, but rapid growth within the markets as well. and that culture that you start with on day one might evolve. It’s, it’s important that it probably does evolve. but also it’s important that you don’t lose sight of what was important to you as a, as a founder or as a small business at that stage.

So you’ve got this flight, this one element of a growing workforce and growing revenue to deal with. on the flip side of this, you. Focused on products and you’re focused on go to market, you might not focused on some of the [00:22:00] areas that don’t drive return and the same investment straight away. and security is one of these.

It’s really difficult to, to show ROI on security. So that’s why security is often not the first one sat in the room. Now, I have been with organizations where I’ve been one of the first people sat in the room. From a security point of view in a company that was far stronger and ended up as, 150 strong by the time I was leaving.

But they were very sector specific, so they were worst security was so important to that sector. They could not afford to get it wrong. You take are the ones in zooms, you know, the poster boy for this story at the moment, they’ve hit, they’ve written like this before COBIT and, and carried that on through Komodo.

They then hit the real issues when security was re Kendra came on hinge to that. But, and when you look at him, you say, did they get anything really wrong? They probably didn’t. they might have been a little bit late to the party with some of the highest. But they’ve [00:23:00] invested in that now and they’ve been really transparent about it.

Should they have done this a little bit earlier than maybe should they have done it a lot earlier? Absolutely not. Because they needed to get that product right and they needed to get, go to market rates and that’s where they needed to invest, invest their capital. Investing it in the insecurity needed to come slightly later on to answer the questions.

Ashish Rajan: [00:23:20] It does, and I think it does, and I think it’s, it does bring an interesting point as well as cyber security may not be important at your point. Well, you don’t even know if you would have enough money in the kid. You do buy a security product or talk about all these amazing security things that you have and certifications you would get.

If you can’t sell, the product doesn’t make a difference because there’s no one to like it’s the most secure software in the world, but no one wants to buy it. What’s the point? You might as well just put that money in the bank then at that point.

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:23:48] Exactly. Not security. I was always say to everyone, it’s a function of risk and ultimately risk.

You’re looking at a various number of factors and. But if you’re, if you’re not in [00:24:00] business, that’s the biggest risk is going out the business, especially in a growth organization. So you need to make sure that you’re able to grow and able to continue. yup. Heritage going to block that, then it’s not going to work.

Ashish Rajan: [00:24:12] And, and to a point, bringing it back to the whole culture thing as well. I, for example, most likely a growth company also means the. Security team would be quite small. It would not be fair. 2030 people. It might be two or three, four, maybe five, maybe more. Sometimes it was just one person. Yeah. How does, how does one build or think about cyber security culture in a organization from then?

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:24:39] So yeah, building, it’s a real challenge and it is always your, your everyone and your, your everyone from an analyst through to an engineer through to a CSO and everything in between. Every hour, every day. and so the way that I think you think about this across an organization like that, you’ve got to, you’ve [00:25:00] got to leverage the teams that you’ve got in place.

Just because you’re a one man or three matter of five man band, that doesn’t mean that you can’t work closely with infrastructure, with dev ops teams, with, with it teams, with. Anyone outside of the technology space, with your finance team, your legal teams, to make sure that you can actually get your security work done.

and this all comes back to the key point that I make about culture. And it’s all about alignment. If everyone knows that you’re at this stage within your, your journey, your zoom, your whoever else, and you’ve decided our focus for the next six weeks, six months, whatever it may be, is around security.

And here’s why. You bring everyone on that journey with you, as a, as a top level exec team, but then also as the security team, people will be, feel obliged to help you and actually achieve that because they see how it works as part of those more strategic goals. When I started with the [00:26:00] organization, I joined them, we had this, the super all hands, which was all of our American counterparts coming over to Manchester and we had a big week.

We are at least the science museum in Manchester had a big session there for two days, all around alignment and corporate strategy. I spoke on that for the first time to the organization and I gave everyone an analogy of how security was important, but it’s not the most important thing. And how are we actually helps the organization move faster towards strategic goals.

And it’s one that security to prepare. I’ll views on that. But it’s around there in the Japanese bullet train. So this was designed to be the fastest train that was ever, ever made. and if it was the engine could, and the, and the microwave technology meant they could go with particularly fast, but he could go faster.

The reason it couldn’t go faster was because the brakes were not capable of slowing it down on time. And so actually, how did they make it go faster? They made better brakes, better security that allowed it to stop quicker. And actually therefore sped it up. [00:27:00] This analogy really resonated, and hopefully really aligns the security messaging to the organizational messaging, which then meant we could go forward to as one.

I’m not, I’m not message young and I’ve had some really great support across the organization to deliver this. Now. Wow.

Ashish Rajan: [00:27:16] I’m going to steal that analogy. That is a great analogy. I’m going to feel that if you don’t mind

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:27:21] to just fact check,

Ashish Rajan: [00:27:25] but not, it makes sense. Even if it’s like a hypothetical speed trend, it does make sense.

If you can stop the plane, what’s the point of speeding up. I do want to switch over to some of the fun side as well, which is kind of like why we are in a culture colonization. So it’s kind of like our last section of, I guess of the episode as the rugged, you know, the audience gets to know you a bit as well.

Not that many. Just three questions. So I’ve started the first one. Where do you spend most time on when you’re not working on technology or security or cloud

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:27:59] within, [00:28:00] within the organization?

Ashish Rajan: [00:28:01] Well, you can just, it’s not just you, it’s just getting to know you as a person.

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:28:06] Yeah. I ride a, okay. I mean, I’ve got two young kids and any, any parent would know that.

it’s completely, it’s everything.

Ashish Rajan: [00:28:16] In schooling, I guess now.

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:28:17] Yeah. Yeah. I know it’s, it’s been, it’s challenging for everyone. Right. And still the schools are doing, the STEM. Parents are absolutely doing the best. I’ve got a great wife who’s delivered an amazing education to my kids, so that’s brilliant.

But going back to it, going back to culture here, you know, the business has really understood the pressures that are on people here and really working with them to make sure that one, we can continue as a business, but to the people that actually have a life and family actually is right

Ashish Rajan: [00:28:49] on that. Yeah.

Yeah. I can imagine until to a point. a lot of people join. organizations which have childcares and things like that as well, [00:29:00] for the same reason, because that supports your family. Cause that’s both every day. I mean, yeah, sorry, a hundred percent. I don’t want to go too deep into it, but I agree with you.

It definitely is quite a key, component. Like everyone has families and that’s, those are important as well. And I think the whole covert has highlighted the fact that family safety also comes in because you don’t want to bring someone in the organization and they get, they become active. They, I guess they get covered and then they get it to the family.

Yeah. Whole different ball game over there. But good answer though. Okay. What is something that you’re proud of, but it’s not on your social media, like LinkedIn or Twitter or wherever you hang out?

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:29:41] probably I’ll, I’ll go back. I’ll go back to this. This right here, right. This was, this was a life changing moment for me growing up and working for Disney.

And it’s really, really quite cool story, I guess. I went and worked for Disney world when I was at university through, through [00:30:00] their summer program. So when suspend three or four months out there as a lifeguard and one of the resorts, I know it was the kind of thing that I wouldn’t have envisaged myself doing that.

Everyone always asked me if I was a, I dressed up as making my assault there. No, wasn’t.

Ashish Rajan: [00:30:18] I was going to ask that, but yeah. Thanks for clarifying it.

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:30:21] Yeah. Yeah. It’s a great experience to kind of led to where I’m now in life through various different ways, but actually working for one of the most prominent organizations in the world taught me so many lessons and I’m really proud that I did, that

Ashish Rajan: [00:30:36] I might’ve killed, would have been just mind blowing as well.

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:30:40] Yeah. The scale of the way they do things. It’s the, the exact amount of control of every tiny little thing without giving away any of the secrets that ruined the magic. it was, yeah, it was really quite something to observe. Oh,

interesting. one more Ashish Rajan: [00:30:55] question before we get to the end. What’s your favorite cuisine or [00:31:00] restaurant that you can share.

Oh,

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:31:02] okay. I’m fairly simple. my, my favorite cuisine, or always just be a really, really good pizza. And I went out to our, Denver office recently, and met with RCMI. They took me out after, after work one day and we went to a place called them slice works, where they have some very strange pizzas.

They’ve managed to recreate a big Mac on a pizza. Yeah, absolutely. Great. And I actually tried to copy it this, this last weekend with kids. There’s a lot of great recipes online for it. Sounds disgusting, but it’s absolutely great.

Ashish Rajan: [00:31:38] Yeah. I was going to say a big Mac as a pizza. That’s, yeah. how was the, how’s the application that you did with your kids with, did that come out all right?

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:31:47] Yeah. Yeah, surprisingly good. Actually.

Ashish Rajan: [00:31:50] I’m still not tell you anything because they’re like, our dad made it. I guess it is good. Love it dad.

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:31:56] They didn’t actually get to eat it cause they weren’t a fan of pickles off the top of it. [00:32:00] But I had to break my pizza and felt very ill afterwards because it was far too.

Ashish Rajan: [00:32:05] As long as you were happy, man, as long as you’re happy. so that’s kinda like towards the end of a, episode here, but where can people reach out to you? They were talking more about culture and, what are your social that they can reach out to you on.

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:32:19] Yeah, sure. LinkedIn is probably the best place to get me.

I do have a Twitter profile. I think it’s grim to blue park. or on LinkedIn, Instagram, come to park. I’m not, not an awful, an awful, tweeter. So I think that if you need me, probably

Ashish Rajan: [00:32:37] perfect all and I’ll leave that in the soil. So I guess the show notes as well so people can reach out to you as well.

But this was really amazing, man. I do appreciate this is quite late in, UK at the moment, so I do appreciate you taking the time out and apologies for our family for making you, keeping you awake and yelling in the house. I guess while you were going through this, thanks so much for taking the time out and really appreciate that.

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:32:57] Now. It’s been been great and yeah, I don’t worry about the time [00:33:00] difference. It’s just what zoom is all about. Right.

Ashish Rajan: [00:33:02] That’s right. Thanks. Thanks so much, man. I’ll, I’ll hopefully I can bring you once again to talk more about this one day.

Graeme Cantu-Park: [00:33:08] Absolutely. That’s great. Thanks very much. Everyone.